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Mexican military losing drug war support

Read ArticleArticle Source: msnbc.com
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This hardscrabble Mexican border town welcomed 400 soldiers when they arrived four months ago to stop a wave of drug violence.

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{"commentId":2284001,"authorDomain":"agss404"}

The Mexican military (boy, that is an oxymoron!) ARE the drug cartel. They just carry their machine guns more openly. Mexico is a septic tank; and always has been.

{"commentId":2284001,"threadId":"319967","contentId":"1695931","authorDomain":"agss404"}
    Reply#1 - Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:38 AM EDT
    {"commentId":2285743,"authorDomain":"revtg1"}

    I hope you know how right you are, SPIKE. I studied the history of Mexico in college. Then I traveled in Mexico off and on for years. In the 80s I used to drive up and down the Baja alone in my van. I stopped in local bars and cafes and slept on the beaches in some beautiful places that looked untouched by time. Then I ran across the Mexican "army." A rag-tag bunch of illiterate peasants carrying strange looking sub-machineguns. The were supposed to be searching vehicles for drugs. What they were looking for, I found out too late, is anything small enough to hide under their jacket. Cigarettes, flashlights, cameras, anything they can steal. Later I saw a four hour special on PBS about how the Mexican "army" and border police work for the drug cartels. The most bizarre incident was actually filmed as it happened. The Mexican narco-cops waited to ambush a drug shipment being flown in from Columbia. The plane landed in a remote area on the Yucatan. When the cops moved toward the plane they were intercepted by a platoon of Mexican soldiers. The uniformed soldiers killed every one of the narco cops. The last two or three they had to chase down on foot and execute. The Mexican "army" is not "losing" anything in their business arrangement with the drug cartel. People who see no harm in 100s of 1000s of illegal Mexicans coming here to work have never seen the squalor and filth and smelled the stench of Juarez and Nogales and Tiajuana. Stand by. Unless our government grows a backbone it will be coming to YOUR neighborhood. Soon.

    {"commentId":2285743,"threadId":"319967","contentId":"1695931","authorDomain":"revtg1"}
    • 1 vote
    #1.1 - Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:00 AM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":2284141,"authorDomain":"venegasn"}

    You are so dumb and ignorant. I feel sorry for you, your mother and especially (god forbid you have any) your children.

    {"commentId":2284141,"threadId":"319967","contentId":"1695931","authorDomain":"venegasn"}
      Reply#2 - Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:13 AM EDT
      {"commentId":2284147,"authorDomain":"tigereaz"}

      well!! - this certainly appears to be racial profiling ....

      {"commentId":2284147,"threadId":"319967","contentId":"1695931","authorDomain":"tigereaz"}
        Reply#3 - Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:15 AM EDT
        {"commentId":2284470,"authorDomain":"charles0390"}
        charles0390-1Deleted
        {"commentId":2285827,"authorDomain":"revtg1"}

        Anyone who thinks calling the Mexican authorities corrupt, from the president down to the local police chief and village alcalde, is "racial profiling" is obviously not ashamed of their abysmal ignorance. The Arizona Republic ran articles almost daily for a while about corruption in Mexico. Juan Lopez de Santa Ana was president of Mexico four times and every time he left Mexico City he took the treasury with him. It is both a custom and a tradition. Other past presidents of Mexico are hiding in foreign countries with their loot. Ronald Reagan appointed a handsome movie star and former Naval intelligence officer, John Gavin, U.S. ambassador to Mexico. Gavin, fluent in Spanish and a somewhat suave gentlemen, was serious about being a good ambassador. After a year he returned to Washington and resigned. He said (not an exact quote,here) "Those people are impossible to deal with honestly. Corruption, kick backs, payoffs, extortion is so ingrained in their very nature it has become an integral part of their society. You cannot separate them. You cannot deal with then honestly. They are baffled by attempts to do so."

        {"commentId":2285827,"threadId":"319967","contentId":"1695931","authorDomain":"revtg1"}
          #3.2 - Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:13 AM EDT
          Reply
          {"commentId":2284164,"authorDomain":"eaglwlker"}

          The question is . Why is our government giving them money, know how corrupt they are. And it not like they are not getting enopugh from the US anyway.

          {"commentId":2284164,"threadId":"319967","contentId":"1695931","authorDomain":"eaglwlker"}
            Reply#4 - Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:20 AM EDT
            {"commentId":2284447,"authorDomain":"charles0390"}
            charles0390-1Deleted
            Reply
            {"commentId":2284210,"authorDomain":"lovly2008"}

            Seems to me these people need some help. If the Mexicans are truly trying to get rid of the drugs I think this is a war worth fighting. Drugs are DESTROYING people. Why arent more involved?

            {"commentId":2284210,"threadId":"319967","contentId":"1695931","authorDomain":"lovly2008"}
              Reply#5 - Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:33 AM EDT
              {"commentId":2284260,"authorDomain":"miqueletlock"}

              They get our money so politicians HERE can tell the gullible American public "hey, look! WE'RE doing something to fight the War on Drugs!". Go rent the movie "Traffic" which touches on this weird relationship.
              The Mexican military are your standard, corrupt, 'banana republic' military entity: they beat up the law abiding citizenry and are deep in the pockets of those who are deep in someone else's deeeeep pockets. Though a contingent of them get kudos for rendering help here at refugee camps in Texas in the days after Hurricane Katrina, they (or those dressed like them) have occasionally openned fire on the Border Patrol in deep South Texas. Revolutions & civil wars have never fixed anything "south of the border"; they've only symbolically hit the "RESET" button so new guys could replace the old. Any wonder why so many want to come live north of the border?
              Our political way of life has lots of drawbacks to be sure. One look at Mexico, though, and you realize: it could be worse!

              {"commentId":2284260,"threadId":"319967","contentId":"1695931","authorDomain":"miqueletlock"}
              • 1 vote
              Reply#6 - Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:48 AM EDT
              {"commentId":2284811,"authorDomain":"dwemmy"}

              Good post and call on the film Traffic.

              Favorite line: "Do we have anyone here from treatment?" (silence) "Is there ANYONE here from treatment?" (silence)

              Another reason to soften our drug laws. One need only to look at the success of The Netherlands, where drug use/abuse has decreased since decriminalization of various illicits.

              No one should be thrown in jail for only using drugs. There are so many better ways to address this problem (see above).

              {"commentId":2284811,"threadId":"319967","contentId":"1695931","authorDomain":"dwemmy"}
                #6.1 - Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:38 AM EDT
                Reply
                {"commentId":2284366,"authorDomain":"wildbill69"}

                Spike probably has this one spot on. But the military can't win, even if they're good military. People want protection from criminals so they call the government. They send in the military. When they get there and they don't know who is who in these town, and in most cases the towns people are so afraid of the criminal element, that they're afraid to point them out. When the military starts asking questions, they want answers. People aren't use to having someone ask in a demanding way, so they start complaining about their rights being violated, and the military can't do their job if they have to beg people to get answers to straight forward questions. So you're back to square one. The people say the military is as bad as the criminals, so everyone gets frustrated.

                {"commentId":2284366,"threadId":"319967","contentId":"1695931","authorDomain":"wildbill69"}
                  Reply#7 - Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:12 AM EDT
                  {"commentId":2284407,"authorDomain":"charles0390"}
                  charles0390-1Deleted
                  {"commentId":2284546,"authorDomain":"rsunday08"}

                  It is a bilateral problem! Is NOT only Mexico's. Here in the USA our citizens are the ones that keep the supply going with HUGE DEMAND! Here in the USA our citizens are the ones abusing drugs in all levels! Nobody is forcing our citizens to buy/use drugs! So, it is our country's responsibility too! - Many drugs come from Mexico; but at the same time the powerful weapons that are used by the cartels are illegally exported from USA! - Watch the movie "No Country for Old Men", which is based in actual facts, you will see that there are people both White and Mexicans involved in the narco/arms/traffick. So, I ask all of you self-righteous Americans to stop pointing fingers and blaming others when you are part of the problem; in fact you all American drug users ARE THE MAIN PROBLEM!!!

                  {"commentId":2284546,"threadId":"319967","contentId":"1695931","authorDomain":"rsunday08"}
                    Reply#9 - Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:13 AM EDT
                    {"commentId":2284817,"authorDomain":"dwemmy"}

                    Do you use caffeine, alcohol, nicoteine, salicylic acid, acetomenphen, etc.

                    What a self righteous American drug user!

                    {"commentId":2284817,"threadId":"319967","contentId":"1695931","authorDomain":"dwemmy"}
                      #9.1 - Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:43 AM EDT
                      Reply
                      {"commentId":2284573,"authorDomain":"hanloncorp"}

                      Just think of the Mexican Army patrolling American streets!!!

                      Think it can't happen!

                      The Security & Prosperity Partnership of North America would allow Mexican troops to patrol American Streets in times of crisis.

                      Silly me, I thought we already had a bad criminal element in the U.S.

                      Sounds like fun times to come!!!!

                      {"commentId":2284573,"threadId":"319967","contentId":"1695931","authorDomain":"hanloncorp"}
                        Reply#10 - Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:24 AM EDT
                        {"commentId":2284629,"authorDomain":"fuckface"}

                        Hmmmm. You mean the people of Mexico don't like jack booted thugs that are above the law either?

                        {"commentId":2284629,"threadId":"319967","contentId":"1695931","authorDomain":"fuckface"}
                          Reply#11 - Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:04 AM EDT
                          {"commentId":2284641,"authorDomain":"cisneros-d"}

                          From personal knowledge, I know that here in America, there are very powerful citizens who use, sell and traffic in Drugs. Judges and Politicians alike. Drugs are a Aphrodisiac that gives people a false sense of overwhelming power in all of vanities. Most people think that only the lowly and downtrodden are tempted. As of matter of fact it preferrs the already rich and famous. It makes the poor feel like Kings and the rich feel like Gods. Go figure where this will lead mankind.

                          {"commentId":2284641,"threadId":"319967","contentId":"1695931","authorDomain":"cisneros-d"}
                            Reply#12 - Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:10 AM EDT
                            Reply
                            {"commentId":2284659,"authorDomain":"cisneros-d"}

                            In America the downtrodden as well as the rich and famous partake of the aphrodisiac od drugs. Sociaty fails to tell its citizens thats it the worst disquise of power on earth. promises one gold and happiness, but yields posion and death when taken without professional guidiance.

                            {"commentId":2284659,"threadId":"319967","contentId":"1695931","authorDomain":"cisneros-d"}
                              Reply#13 - Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:25 AM EDT
                              {"commentId":2284973,"authorDomain":"delapper"}

                              Yet another example of how stupid and costly the "War on Drugs" is.

                              -Drugs being illegal have never stopped one person, not one, in the entire world who wants them from getting them.

                              -Drugs being illegal only means that the money goes to criminal interests without $0.01 being spent on education or treatment programs.

                              -Billions upon billions have been spent with nothing accomplished.

                              -Illegal means unregulated, which means that anything at all can be in drugs and you can get them on any street corner.

                              -The legal drugs prescribed are more often than not, more addictive and harmful than marijuana and other drugs.

                              Its a complete joke. Unfortunately its a joke that ruins lives and costs unbelievable sums of money for no benefit.

                              {"commentId":2284973,"threadId":"319967","contentId":"1695931","authorDomain":"delapper"}
                                Reply#14 - Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:07 AM EDT
                                {"commentId":2285162,"authorDomain":"canemah35"}

                                Let's see, the Mexican government accepting large sums of money (from the US) with conditions violates their sovereignty, but the Mexican government accepting large sums of money (from the US) with no conditions or oversight is beneficial to their graft and corruption systems and that is OK. I don't know if legalizing drugs is the answer (I doubt it and you'll never find enough politicians with the guts to vote for it), but you are right when you say that the main cause of the problem is the demand north of the border. And folks, there is no such thing as a casual user.

                                {"commentId":2285162,"threadId":"319967","contentId":"1695931","authorDomain":"canemah35"}
                                  Reply#15 - Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:11 AM EDT
                                  {"commentId":2286065,"authorDomain":"jimmy1"}

                                  The old Fed Chair had it right, this is no different than prohibition. Thinking that criminalizing something will affect demand is ridiculous. All we have done is drive the price up of illegal drugs by trying to enforce our laws. The problem then becomes the attraction of "entrepreneurs" going after profits that we enable with our policy. And prohibition showed that there was no change in demand either way and as soon as decriminalization took place the price fell and people like Al Capone were out of business. If cocaine was priced like sugar who would smuggle it or deal it? Would it change your mind about doing it if it were cheap? We have the answers to these questions already and ignore it. The drug war is thirty years old and we are farther behind than ever. The DEA reports that the average pound of Marijuana confiscated cost them about $90,000. That pound is not worth 10% of that on the street, it would be more effective to just buy the drugs they confiscate than waste their time trying to find it.
                                  As well if cocaine were as cheap as sugar, crack heads would not resort to crime to feed their habit, $20 would keep them busy for a month.
                                  Lastly is the cost of unregulated drugs, many heroine overdoses are due to mistakes in manufacturing causing overdoses. Miscalculations cost many of these addicts their lives, and the argument for the spread of HIV through these users is also made in regard to the situation they are in. As well comes the idea of substitution. The only reason we have a meth problem in this country is because it is the substitute for something else. When you can't have coke you'll ask for pepsi, same with meth, coke, heroine etc. Basic economic principles scream the right answer and no one is listening.

                                  {"commentId":2286065,"threadId":"319967","contentId":"1695931","authorDomain":"jimmy1"}
                                  • 1 vote
                                  Reply#16 - Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:49 AM EDT
                                  {"commentId":2286924,"authorDomain":"dwemmy"}
                                  The DEA reports that the average pound of Marijuana confiscated cost them about $90,000. That pound is not worth 10% of that on the street, it would be more effective to just buy the drugs they confiscate than waste their time trying to find it.

                                  If that number ($90,000) is anywhere near accurate I couldn't agree more. What a sickening waste of our money!

                                  {"commentId":2286924,"threadId":"319967","contentId":"1695931","authorDomain":"dwemmy"}
                                    Reply#17 - Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:03 PM EDT
                                    {"commentId":2288696,"authorDomain":"direwolfprime"}

                                    Unfortunately we cannot allow ourselves to end the war on drugs until drugs have become extinct, the alternative is the death of mankind. No dictator has ever had anything near the power that drugs have. Even the British attempted to use drugs as a form of control in the Opium Wars. And now a new war is starting where the Cartel lords are thirsty for power and hateful of free will, so dependent on the illusion of human nature that they never think twice of ethics. Their power and influence is spreading to where they already have control of at least three governments, Mexico being the most obvious example.

                                    The war on drugs cannot be fought with bullets and tanks. It is a war for the freedom of every human being on the planet, not a politician on a high chair. Therefore we, not just the soldiers, are the army. We must all, from the broken-home kids to the Vatican priests to the most devout Al-Queda member, recognize we share a common enemy greater than terrorism, gas prices, global warming, and our petty territorial disputes. We must all rebel against this new regime, the ultimate fascism that ends free will from a bong or a syringe. To do drugs may seem like a personal choice today, but in a matter of decades we may lose our right to say no if we do not resist now.

                                    Before there were borders, there was infinity. Before there were governments, there was freedom. Before there were drugs, there was humanity. We evolved from the primordial ooze and survived countless millennia with just our fire and spears, without drugs. The human race never has and never will depend on drugs.

                                    {"commentId":2288696,"threadId":"319967","contentId":"1695931","authorDomain":"direwolfprime"}
                                      Reply#18 - Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:13 PM EDT
                                      {"commentId":2291872,"authorDomain":"delapper"}

                                      Really? I must thank you for your post as it proves my point entirely about both sides of the argument. The side for the legalization of drugs pose intelligent and rational points about about their side, such things as regulation and treatment programs. Those opposed have no argument other than "REEFER MADNESS", "MANKIND WILL END".

                                      Mankind has been using intoxicants since the dawn of time, before the inventions of Gods and written history. To say that the "war on drugs" is necessary to save mankind is the most amazing form of self deception that I have ever seen. I strongly advise you to at least read a history book before using it to justify your inaccurate stance.

                                      The drug cartels that you are so afraid of taking over the world are getting their funding from the "war on drugs". As stated in previous posts all this does is push up the prices and all the money goes to criminals. People wanted alcohol before prohibition, people got alcohol during prohibition, all that money went to criminals.

                                      I shouldn't even have to say anything about your comments that if drug were legal then we would lose our right to say no. Honestly. Alcohol is legal so everyone must be a drunk, porn is legal so everyone must be a pervert, tobacco is legal so everyone is a chainsmoker. Completely amazing how anyone can come to this conclusion.

                                      Regulation, taxation, education or self deception and egotism, with a dash of HUGE profits for drug companies with doctors as their pushers thrown in. Which side are you on?

                                      {"commentId":2291872,"threadId":"319967","contentId":"1695931","authorDomain":"delapper"}
                                        Reply#19 - Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:37 AM EDT
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